Anna Dorn On Perfume & Pain, Writing, and Alter Ego

Interview

Jul 17

*Photograph of Anna Dorn by Vanessa Roveto*

If you love fun, hilarious, clever, and un-put-down-able books about messy (often queer) women with doses of bad decisions, chaotic careers, and astrology, then you probably already know about novelist Anna Dorn.

Her first novel, Vagablonde, which was published in 2020, follows a 30-year-old lawyer, Prue, who wants to be a rapper. Her second novel, 2022’s Exalted, chronicles the lives of two women, who are connected in an unexpected way: a young internet astrologer, Emily, who runs an astrology Instagram account called Exalted and becomes obsessed with a man who has the perfect chart; and Dawn, a 48-year-old lesbian who is stumbling through her love life and reads Exalted for inspiration. Dorn’s most recent novel, Perfume & Pain, follows recently semi-canceled novelist, Astrid, who is trying to get her life back on track, which means leaving behind the “Patricia Highsmith” (an original concoction of Adderall, alcohol, and cigarettes) and avoiding dating – but Ivy, a fellow lesbian in her writers group, and Penelope, her new neighbor, both complicate Astrid’s goal. Dorn is also the author of a memoir, Bad Lawyer, which was published in 2021. She has also written for LitHub, the Hundreds, the Los Angeles Review of Books, and more.

Dorn’s fans will be delighted to know that she has another novel on its way out – except not under her own name. Rather, the new novel, titled The Really Dead Wives of New Jersey, is written by “Astrid Dahl” – as in the main character from Perfume & Pain. The Really Dead Wives will be released in January 2025. Meanwhile, under her own name, Dorn’s next novel is titled American Spirits and will be out in 2026.

Below is our conversation about all things writing:

Nikki: Your novels are full of flawed, complex, fascinating characters – what’s your process for fleshing out a character? Some authors say that characters come to them nearly fully formed – is this how it is for you or do you need to spend more time crafting them?

Anna: My characters definitely don’t come to me fully formed. I normally start with their voice or an aesthetic detail. In the first draft, I’m just getting to know these people. By the 9th or 10th draft, I know them pretty well. The hardest part of finishing a novel is having to part with them. I really love my characters, even though most people on Goodreads and Instagram seem to find them unlikeable and annoying.

Nikki: What’s an example of an aesthetic detail that got you thinking about one of your characters?

Anna: Hmm. I knew that Ivy from Perfume & Pain smelled like metallic orchids and wore pink cowboy boots. I knew Penelope wore a red sundress. I knew Astrid wore vintage Levis and sambas.

Nikki: Both Exalted and Perfume & Pain contain characters from your previous novels – for example, Beau, a main character from Exalted, originally appeared in Vagablonde, then also makes an appearance in Perfume & Pain. Do these cameos happen naturally or do you take the time to find space for your previous characters?

Anna: Sometimes they happen naturally, sometimes it’s more conscious. I was originally inspired by Bret Easton Ellis who has a lot of overlapping characters like the Batemans, Clay, Blair, etc throughout standalone novels. And Allison Poole, the main character of Jay McIninerney’s Story of My Life (one of my faves), appears in Ellis’s American Psycho and Glamorama. I think these easter eggs are fun for the readers, so I set out making sure I had them. And now I’ve built this whole little cinematic universe. I hope that doesn’t sound too Marvel movie!

Nikki: Many writers would say that one of the hardest parts of the job is keeping up a steady writing schedule. What does your daily writing practice look like and how did you settle into a routine that worked best for you?

Anna: That part is actually pretty easy for me. Writing for me is a bit of a compulsion. I can’t stop if I try. Occasionally I’ll have moments where I feel less inspired than others, or feel like everything I write is algorithmic and shitty, but I’m still doing it. I write every day when I wake up, generally between two and four hours. The afternoon is not my favorite time to write, so I typically schedule meetings then or do editing work. But sometimes I’ll write in the afternoons if I’m really jazzed on a project. And then I’ll typically write for a few hours after dinner.

Nikki: What is typically the spark of a new novel for you – the characters or the plot? How do you use one to help you form the other?

Anna: Definitely character. I imagine a voice or person in a certain situation who I want to inhabit. And then I’ll start writing as that person and see where they take me.

Nikki: How has your writing process changed over time, from writing your first novel, Vagablonde, to now?

Anna: I’m a little bit more deliberate now. I outlined the last two books I wrote, which will be published in 2025 and 2026. I didn’t totally stick to the outlines, but I used to not outline at all. I’ve also been writing in third person and past tense, i.e. trying to grow up. My first three novels are first person, present tense. Third person is fun because I’m less worried about people thinking my characters are me and therefore feel less need to make them self-aware. And past tense is fun because you can cover more time. My book coming out in 2026 takes place over five years, which is new for me. My first three books each take place over a few months.

Nikki: Did you find the switch to third person difficult in any way? Did you ever consider switching back to first?

Anna: I’d been trying for years to write in third but something in me had been resisting. But then with The Really Dead Wives of New Jersey, it happened naturally. Same with the book I wrote after that, American Spirits. Maybe it was just a matter of timing. I recently wrote a short story in first person, so I’m definitely not done with it. That story will be in this collection called Be Gay, Do Crime by Dzanc Books, set to be released in Spring 2025.

Nikki: Which writers have inspired your craft the most? Has that list changed over the years?

Anna: When I started writing, I was most inspired by Brett Easton Ellis and Joan Didion. Now I find them both a bit cold. Recently I’ve been inspired by more commercial stuff, like Lisa Jewell, this British thriller writer who has published 23 books (I just counted on her Wikipedia page!). A lot of her books are bestsellers. They’re super smart and emotionally complex in addition to being addictively plotted. I’m less interested in writers I once found artistically relevant, and more interested in writers who’ve managed to carve out a devoted audience and make a decent living.

Nikki: Many of your novels include similar themes and topics – messy women, celebrity culture, addiction, obsession, online culture. Do you find that you naturally start writing about these topics or do you intricately and purposefully weave them into your books?

Anna: I just write about what naturally interests me, I think most people do! Right?

Nikki: Love, sex, and relationships are also an essential element of your novels. How do you like to use your characters – who often are messy or have toxic relationship traits – to explore love and sex?

Anna: Hmm I don’t think I explore sex too much haha. I’m scared to write about sex, or like, don’t know how to do it? My writing isn’t very sexual or erotic. I wish it was! I have a lot of respect for people who can write sex well. I can’t. I feel like I can write decently about crushes, which is a form of obsession. Obsession is a big theme for me. Obsession is more cerebral than sensual. I wish my writing was more sensual, but I’m more of mind than body. So crushes it is! I feel like reading a novel should feel like having a crush. The best novels feel like falling in love.

Nikki: Your answer is interesting to me because, even though there isn’t a lot of sex on the page in your novels, and they aren’t what would be considered “erotic,” sex is still quite present in your work – at least from my perspective as a reader. One example I’m thinking about is how the thought of having sex with Beau is very heavily on Emily’s mind for the first half of EXALTED and how impactful it is when they do have sex (for reasons that I will not spoil). Essentially, I see sex – or more specifically, the possibility of sex – as a detail that helps to create tension and raise the stakes in your novels. Do you agree with this at all?

Anna: For sure! Wanting something and not getting it is at the heart of all narrative conflict, and a character having a crush on someone who either doesn’t like them back or there’s some barrier is one of my favorite types of conflict to write. It’s also universally relatable and has made Taylor Swift a billionaire!

Nikki: Your most ardent fans have definitely noticed by now that the protagonist from Perfume & Pain, Astrid Dahl – who, within the novel, is also an author – now has her own Instagram page, as well as a novel coming out, titled The Really Dead Wives of New Jersey. What can you tell us about Astrid’s upcoming novel?

Anna: My editor at Simon & Schuster approached me with this idea about a Real Housewives-inspired satirical murder mystery set in New Jersey. I was like—on my way! I’d always wanted to write a thriller and I’m a Bravo superfan. I’ve literally never been to New Jersey, so I was a little nervous about that part. But my girlfriend is Italian-American so I was able to do some research via her. And I watched the Real Housewives of New Jersey pretty religiously in the early seasons. My editor gave me the option of using a pen name and I decided to use one because New Jersey isn’t really my brand. And I’d always wanted to write something under a pen name. And Astrid Dahl felt like the obvious choice.

Nikki: Astrid’s career is quite similar to yours – she wrote a book about a "cynical internet astrologer," she quit law school to become a writer, and so on. How are you navigating the character of Astrid in the real world? Do you see her as a persona/alter ego of yourself or as a figment of your imagination come to life, so to speak?

Anna: I guess she’s an alter ego of sorts! I suppose all my characters are alter egos. They all come from my head, so. Astrid is a hotter, more reckless, more successful version of me. Most of my characters are hotter and more successful than me, but also messier. Joan Didion said she originally wanted to be an actress. I did too. I really do see writing as a form of acting. I get to become all these different people. And it’s so fun, because the real me is pretty boring and timid. But when I write, I get to become these reckless people who really live!

Nikki Munoz is a writer living in Los Angeles. She has written for the LA Times, Looper, Stage Raw, and more. She received her MFA in Creative Writing from Antioch University in Los Angeles and is currently working on a novel.

Find her on Instagram @nikkimunozwrites

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